Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Clubs and societies, neighbourhood and social issues
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mb1
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Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Post by mb1 »

Dennis O'Sullivan's take on the proposed grammar schools policy is well worth a read. I'll bet our two local supposedly non-selective schools will be jumping all over this idea if it survives scrutiny in Parliament. This is a good take on why they shouldn't, as local kids will be harmed.

https://www.the-newshub.com/uk-politics ... -injustice
Blueboy
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Re: Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Post by Blueboy »

An interesting read. I must say I was disappointed to find the PM proposing more grammar schools. Even more so when she, a well educated and intelligent person, trotted out the old and poor argument criticising people who had had the "advantage" of a grammar school education now being opposed to their reintroduction. Doubtless she would also criticise opponents who hadn't been to a grammar school as not having the necessary experience to form an opinion or, even worse, were merely engaging in the politics of envy.

I do note that Finland regularly comes top in the world in educational standards without, as far as I know, any private schools or an 11+ equivalent. Perhaps someone will correct me on that but in any event I just can't fathom the British desire for some sort of status through the schools their children attend. It's important for my children to be well educated but it's equally important that other children should be well educated for the sake of the society my children will grow up to live in.

Rant over.
Matt40
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Re: Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Post by Matt40 »

I went through a strange system of 13+ in Kent which was two years of comprehensive followed by 5 years of grammar (not sure why my area of Kent was not eleven plus like medway for example). I have to say I came from a poor working class background and the comprehensive offered me nothing except fighting skills but the Grammar school stretched me mentally and opened my eyes to aspiration and education. How can offering kids a way out of the ghetto be a bad thing? Not all kids are academic and surely streaming them according to their learning paces is a good thing? We live in a world now of political dumbing down where we feel afraid to call people less intelligent than others but hey ho I may be able to be able to do a times crossword but I can't brick lay or change my car oil, we've all got different abilities.
RichardH
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Re: Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Post by RichardH »

Because a test at age 11 is not the best way to determine a child's ability? Because well off parents will start paying for private tutors to coach their kids to jump through the hoops to pass the 11+? Because it increases division in society?
mb1
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Re: Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Post by mb1 »

Don;t know when you wet through the Kent system Matt40 but all the evidence now is that it is completely dominated by better off middle class families and that social exclusion and immobility is significantly increased by the continuing of the grammar system. We have friends with kids going to grammar school in the Ashford area and they attest anecdotally to the veracity of the statistics. The sad truth is that a system designed to give working class kids a leg up has atrophied into a vehicle for social class protection.
Blueboy
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Re: Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Post by Blueboy »

One of the arguments seems to be that Grammar Schools increase social mobility. My parents were both deemed good enough to go to their local grammar schools (the only secondary education available back then) but their parents couldn't afford to pay for them to go nor to have them away from employment to help support the family. So they both failed to fulfil their potential to their detriment and that of society.

I would argue that it is the provision of free secondary education in general that has changed that kind of situation. Yet today we have Mrs May once again berating Corbyn because he went to grammar school but now campaigns against them. She seems to have the view that just because he and she did well out of the system that makes it OK. Those who didn't pass the 11+ and those who were let down by grammar schools might disagree.

I accept that different people have different abilities but in the large comprehensives that we now have that surely is entirely possible to cope with. Likewise streaming. Why not stream and allow those good in particular areas to benefit but that's a long way from segregating children permanently at age 11?
Matt40
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Re: Excellent blog on Grammar School Policy by Chauncy Head

Post by Matt40 »

Some interesting views. I probably went to the local Grammar when there wasn't as much mobility in the early 80s. I'm sure areas weren't then swamped by middle class parents moving in to get their private education on the cheap but perhaps either I didn't see it (too yound to have old eyes) or Grammars were all over Kent and parents wouldn't move in from say Herts to Kent just for a Grammar school?

Fundamentally I do agree that it should be totally means tested to reflect the local society's mix of people else it then fails in one of it's purposes which is social mobility. How you could implement such a policy though I don't know.
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