Anonymous Gifts To Police

Comment on policing and law & order issues

Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby Pat-H » Fri 07 Feb 2014 11:55 am

The Masked Woler wrote:
Pat-H wrote:Wealth speaks and has influence. it always has and likely always will and this is just a modern version of that.
Somebody with enough spare cash has been generous and I can't imagine that donation won't in some way benefit them.
So how is that any different to the thousands of other financially motivated donations made all the time?

For me it's more about how useful is this donation to law enforcement. We had the comparison to a lake and boats but this vehicle needs to cover a massive areas.
Should a crime take place off road on a farm is it practical for this vehicle to race across the county to deal with the crime?

If we need these vehicles then why don't we have them? I'm tempted to wander down to the fire station and leave a bucket of water outside. Just in case... as long as they remember it was me that donated it and come to me first should a mass fire break out.



There is nothing to say this person is wealthy or that any influence is involved, you are just making assumptions.
Why? lots of people (including me) make donations from which they derive no benefit at all.

Presumably it will be located in the area where it is most needed - like many other police assets.

As to why we don't have them - clearly cost benefit comes in - no public service can afford to have everything they might need. Your analogy with buckets of water is rather silly.


Wealth is a relative term and if this person can afford to give away a vehicle of that value (we're talking in excess of £7000) then they are in my view wealthy. Compared to London bankers they may not be of course.

Any one who donates benefits. Otherwise why are they donating? That benefit may just be feeling better about themselves, it maybe they feel they are contributing to society and ultimately that benefits them.
Getting "richer" by doing something doesn't have to be about getting more money. You can be richer by doing a good turn and feeling better in yourself.
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby Warewolf » Fri 07 Feb 2014 12:15 pm

"Any one who donates benefits. Otherwise why are they donating? That benefit may just be feeling better about themselves, it maybe they feel they are contributing to society and ultimately that benefits them.
Getting "richer" by doing something doesn't have to be about getting more money. You can be richer by doing a good turn and feeling better in yourself."

So why is this not the case with the donation to the Police? Why all the conspiracy theories?
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby The Masked Woler » Fri 07 Feb 2014 12:22 pm

Your " I can't imagine that donation won't in some way benefit them." implies far more than just a feel good factor.

If this had been a donation to the air ambulance no one would have raised an eyebrow.

As for being wealthy, that is a small proportion of what some spend on the vehicles they have parked in their driveway and I doubt they consider themselves as wealthy.
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby mb1 » Sun 09 Feb 2014 11:39 am

There is a fundamental difference between donating to the Air Ambulance, which is largely voluntarily funded, on the one hand, and donating equipment to the Police on the other. The Air Ambulance is run as a charity, and is tasked in its day to day work by the health Service. The Police are not a charity and do their own tasking. If you give them equipment, it is clearly in the expectation that a particular kind of Policing will be enhanced and that the donor will therefore benefit. Very few people can afford to do that, and therefore Policing has slipped from a neutral public service to being something that benefits the wealthy more. In this case it's a small move, but the principle has been established. The Police will accept gifts to provide certain types of Policing. A bad precedent to my mind.
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby Ian » Sun 09 Feb 2014 12:24 pm

mb1 wrote:If you give them equipment, it is clearly in the expectation that a particular kind of Policing will be enhanced and that the donor will therefore benefit.


I'm sorry, but there's nothing clear about this, in fact you have made a lot of assumptions here and I don't believe you have evidence to make them.

1) The Mercury is very good at printing misleading stories, whether by design or accident; have they printed all the facts about this story? Specifically, what's been left out?
2) The donor is quoted as being "a businessman" but there is no further information, so you cannot assume the donor will benefit from this act.
3) You don't know that the donor didn't discuss the donation with the Police and it was the Police themselves that said they really needed this vehicle? If I was considering donating to any organization, i would check with them beforehand what the money would best be spent on.
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby tonyappleton » Sun 09 Feb 2014 6:44 pm

If he's read this forum, I'll bet the donor is glad he chose to remain anonymous!
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby Aardvaark » Sun 09 Feb 2014 7:13 pm

This all seems to be getting a bit hysterical - there have been such donations, sponsorships etc allowed for the past 15 years or so to Government Departments. Prior to that it was deemed that when you produced your annual budget proposals, if anyone made such a donation then you would no longer need to purchase and your budget was reduced by that amount for the year (and usually for subsequent years as well!). There are very strong guidelines in place to regulate these. I presume similar rules apply to Local Authority budgets.
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby mb1 » Mon 10 Feb 2014 11:10 am

Aardvark, all that is happening is that a series of questions are being posed, these being raised by an anonymous donation to the Police. To avoid such suspicions it is best that all donations are absolutely transparent so that everyone can see that all is above board and that there are no justified concerns.
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby Enoughofthat » Wed 12 Mar 2014 4:31 pm

Your request for information concerning the ATV Anonymous donation has been processed under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOI). Your specific request is as follows.According to a report in the Hertfordshire Mercury, A donation of an ATV has been made by an anonymousdonor.
1. Please provide the identity of the donor.
2. Provide correspondence emails, letters, etc appertaining to the request of offer of the vehicle. Specifically toreveal which party made the first approach.
3. Any conditions of use
4. Who retains ownership of the vehicle.
5. Who is responsible for disposal of the vehicle.
6. Who is responsible for replacement of the vehicle.
7. What is the planned length of service of the vehicle.
8. Who is responsible for the cost of training for use of the vehicle.
9. Who is responsible for maintenance of the vehicle.
10. What reasons that the identity of the donor was withheld.
11. Who requested anonymity for the donor.
12. Details of any other anonymous donations.

Since November 2012.Following enquiries with the Safer Neighbourhood Team Inspector for Bishops Stortford and the ConstabularyProfessional Standards Department I am able to advise that Hertfordshire Constabulary is solely responsible for the vehicle. There is no information recorded in respect of the planned length of service of the vehicle as it hasnever been used before and is therefore untested. There is no cost for training as all drivers using the vehicleare quad bike trained and no further training is required other than familiarisation of the controls by the Sergeant in charge of the team.In respect of q4 the driver must hold a valid driving license, have passed an OHU medical examination together with a fitness test and offroad and quad bike training.
There is no information recorded in respect of questions 2, 6, 10, 11 & 12.

The identity of the donor is not disclosable as this is considered the personal data of those individuals only and therefore cannot be released under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

This is because any release would breach the Data Protection Principles contained within the Data ProtectionAct (1998). The exemption applicable in this case is Section 40(2) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.Under Section 40 (2), information is exempt if it constitutes personal information, of which the applicant is not thesubject. In order to be considered exempt it must either be:- information which would be exempt from disclosure to the data subject under the Data Protection Act 1998; OR- disclosure of the information would contravene any of the data protection principles or cause damage or distress to the data subject.

Information Governance, Information Compliance Office, Police Headquarters, Stanborough Road,Welwyn Garden City, Herts, AL8 6XFHertfordshire Constabulary, Information Compliance Office, DX 153960, Welwyn Garden City 7 One of the main differences between the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Freedom of Information Act is that any information released under FOI is released into the public domain, not just to the individual requesting theinformation. As such, any release that identifies an individual through releasing their personal data, even thirdparty personal data, is exempt unless there is a strong public interest in release. Personal data is defined under the Data Protection Act 1998 as data that is biographical in nature, has theapplicant as its focus and/or affects the data subject’s privacy in his or her personal, professional or businesslife.
Yours sincerely
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Re: Anonymous Gifts To Police

Postby malcmac » Wed 12 Mar 2014 8:54 pm

Wow....you really have a lot of time on your hands!!!
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